Mari: 00:00
The views expressed in this podcast are solely for those of the hosts. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and are being used under the Fair Use Doctrine. I'm one of your hosts, Mari.

Ashley: 00:34
Hi guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan: 00:36
What's good, everybody? It's JP because Stone Cold said so.

Ashley: 00:41
Oh yeah.

Jonathan: 00:42
It's well, it's 316. Oh, it is, isn't it?

Mari: 00:46
We're recording on 316, yeah. People are gonna be like, what are you talking about?

Jonathan: 00:53
Oh, my bad, my bad. Yeah, we're recording on 316. We travel through time.

Mari: 00:58
We do. We do travel through time. Yeah,

Mari: 01:00
 so we're recording 316. This episode will actually be out on March 26th. So we're

Mari: 01:08
 ahead of schedule. Yeah, we're ahead of schedule. All right, so

Mari: 01:12
 today we're gonna be discussing Crown of War and Shadow by J.R. Ward, book one in the Kingdom of the Compass series. But first, as always, we have some news. First off, we did do a little bit of news on the last episode, although we don't normally do it on the trope episode, so I figured we would kind of touch on this again and talk about it a little bit. Um Sarah J. Mouse announced that the the next Avatar installments will be coming. She did it on the Call Her Daddy podcast. So part one of the next book or whatever is coming out on the 27th of October. And then parts two and three are coming in January, January 12th, 2027. I believe, if I have my notes right.

Ashley: 01:51
That sounds right, yeah.

Mari: 01:52
Okay. I did take those days off work. If nothing else, I'll be reading. And if I'm not reading, I'm hoping that there's some sort of a book store, like midnight release party I can go to somewhere in the drivable area. So I would love that.

Jonathan: 02:07
I read book two because a coworker, like we had mentioned, a co-worker had I was influenced. I appreciate uh reading for others. I don't think that I'll be reading three, four, five, six, and seven.

Ashley: 02:22
What?

Jonathan: 02:24
I know, right?

Ashley: 02:26
Did you finish book two?

Jonathan: 02:27
I did. I finished book two.

Ashley: 02:28
Um just wasn't for you?

Jonathan: 02:30
It's there were some elements that I liked about it. I liked the city. Thought it wasn't a polite, a delightful treat. I like some of the I like some of the elements of like some of the some of the story pieces. I just I'm looking at those phone books and I'm just thinking You're intimidated? Um no. I don't have that. I mean, like when there are other things I want to read. Okay.

Mari: 02:54
I was just gonna say if it's a matter of motivation, like we can make I can make you a a a a medal, a PowerPoint. We'll get you a fur a first podium medal for finishing the books.

Jonathan: 03:04
The I mean the Dungeon Caller Carl series is just as thick. Another one just arrived at our doorstep today, and it's thicker than the other thick ones that I have from them. And I'm not dissuade by by that. Like it's yeah, you gotta be in it.

Mari: 03:20
That's fine. Yeah, it's not forever. I think you feel about them maybe the way I feel about the Crescent City books. I read them because I felt I had to to get the teeny bit of story I wanted that was Aquatar and Thorn and Flash related. But I'm not a fan of Crescent City, and you have the books, right? I have them. I have them. So Jonathan, you see how big they are.

Jonathan: 03:38
Yeah, I was gonna say, I see, I see. You can lift weights with those. Yeah.

Ashley: 03:42
You could hurt somebody.

Jonathan: 03:43
Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't I guess I don't understand. I I feel like this uh seven book series is really truly a 12 book series. It'll have made them swell.

Ashley: 03:52
Kind of like Star Wars.

Jonathan: 03:54
It's not like Star Wars.

Ashley: 03:55
And that it's just, you know, 18 different movies, but it's all one story.

Jonathan: 04:00
There are no laser swords so far in the two that I've read.

Ashley: 04:03
You didn't read book three.

Mari: 04:05
There may be.

Jonathan: 04:05
You just don't know. Maybe you're not gonna trick me. I see what you're doing. Set me up.

Mari: 04:09
How do you know they're not laser? There are no laser swords.

Jonathan: 04:12
Uh if we get if I read book three, there are no laser swords. I'm gonna be very upset.

Ashley: 04:17
Arguably, I think book three was the best of the trio.

Jonathan: 04:22
You guys this is how this goes, people. No, I'm everybody's like, it gets better as you go. We just get through book one, just suffer through book one. Didn't I send you guys a whole like social media post or like that's how yeah, man, the first one?

Mari: 04:38
Yeah, but if you read this 12-book series, man, book 13, it's just okay. But it helps you understand book 17.

Jonathan: 04:47
Uh not falling for it. I'm not falling. I appreciate listen, I appreciate everybody wanting to share the things that makes them happy. Yeah, that makes me happy. I mean it I mean it makes me happy that people care enough to you know what it's like? It's like when when somebody comes up to me in December and says, Happy Hanukkah. Well, I don't, I'm not, I'm not Jewish, but I'm not gonna tell you I'm not Jewish and be like, thanks. You know what? I appreciate that. Thank I appreciate that you shared that piece of your life with me, right? Yeah.

Mari: 05:15
I mean, I think it's like when, you know, say you guys have this shiny new bike thing and you're so excited about it, and the the specs and the weight and the uh care and the whatever, and it's just the coolest thing ever. And I I'm happy for you.

Jonathan: 05:34
Wait a minute. You guys don't care about it.

Mari: 05:35
You're sharing your shiny rock that you like, and that's fine. This is my shiny rock.

Jonathan: 05:39
Are you guys telling us telling us you don't like this stuff? What the heck? How do you feel about my Rubik's Cube collection, Ashley? How do you really feel?

Ashley: 05:52
He drops the Rubik's Cube in my lap like he's a fu uh puppy dog with a ball in his mouth. Like, please, please throw my ball for me.

Mari: 05:59
Yeah.

Jonathan: 05:60
Somebody gotta mix it up.

Mari: 06:01
So for anyone excited about it and who hasn't heard about it, there's more Acatar coming. Those are the dates. If you are interested in finding out more about it, which I would recommend listening to the podcast, it was pretty good, but only if you have read all the books so far andor don't care about spoilers. It very much gives you some of the the the mental place that Sarah J. Mass was when writing some of these books. And I think also not so subtly shows some of the um tension between Sarj Moss and the publisher.

Ashley: 06:35
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah. Um, I really felt it was enlightening. I have not read all of the books. I've read All Throne of Glass, but I've not read Crescent City, and I've only gotten through book three of Qatar on purpose because I knew the bitch wasn't finished. And I can't handle another.

Jonathan: 06:51
What do you say? We can't, I don't know. I don't think that's appropriate. It's been five years since the last book.

Ashley: 06:57
Like I can't handle that kind of anxiety.

Jonathan: 06:60
I was trying to figure out what what her influences were. Like there must be some trauma built in there. Just like because there were some story elements that I thought didn't they didn't contribute to the plot, but it felt like she was getting something off her chest.

Mari: 07:17
Like what?

Jonathan: 07:17
And um there was a whole there was a question about whether somebody was could be expecting could be expecting after the result of some time together. Um and it was it was like and they were like, Oh, okay, no, I'll just go to I'll take the potion. And it was like, oh, did she like it didn't that didn't lend to the story, but it said to me like, you got something to say about your perspective

Jonathan: 07:48
 on on your your personal position? It's not the only instance.

Mari: 07:53
I will say I think that has more to say about what happens when you publish women who write fantasy. Because what ends up happening is the fact like contraception changed the life of women. And so when you write fantasy books in ye olden times, as most m most of the big like fantasy stuff is written in ye olden times, generally by men, it limits the role of women in these stories because the main role was you're either having kids or you're a nun. Like, because if you're having sex, kids are likely to happen for many people. And so that relegates women to a certain role, some people who choose that role, some people who are relegated to that role, as as has been true throughout much of history. But when you add the element of contraception, I mean you're not gonna have the birth control pill in in modern in fantasy for the most part, but you have you end up having like this magic potion or a a a some sort of like an anti-fertility potion that ends up being in a lot of fantasy written by women. And it's it's because that's the only way you're gonna have equality is if what women have control of their bodies, of when they choose to have children or not.

Ashley: 08:58
She touches on that in other instances, like in Throne of Glass, there's you know, a side story of one of the women who is on this journey that she may or may not want to be on, right? And how she gets her period and how it has to be this like awkward conversation with her male companions on this trip, and how you know she doesn't want to inconvenience them, but you know, this is something that she has to deal with. And you know, it is an interesting perspective because to your point, Mari, it's not something that's traditionally addressed in you know male perspectives, mostly because they don't know anything about it, but even if they did, what would they be able to say that women wouldn't feel some type of way about? Um, so I do think some of that is Sarah J. Mass just kind of reclaiming that that normalcy that a woman's body has these very natural functions and what she wants to do with it, she's in charge. Right.

Jonathan: 09:52
I'm not pushing back. No, no, no, yeah. I'm the I'm just like it it just it it felt like there was a point she was making. Yeah. Um, that she had perspective that she needed to share. And it wasn't it's not the only time. There are other times where she'll say things where I was like, I went, I would go off and Google like relationship to X person, like not like an ex-lover, but like an ex meaning as a placeholder. Like did she was she is there documented evidence that she read Brene Brown books? You know, something like that. Like, was she did she did she have some sort of healing journey that she herself was on? And it manifests in her writing from time to time. It's very possible. It was interesting.

Ashley: 10:37
She talks about that a little bit too. She was in therapy and how you know there was, and so this wasn't in the book that you read, but in I think the book four, two, three, four, five, book five, where she talks about Nesta's, you know, trauma and how Nesta, I mean, this isn't a spoiler. At some point, Nesta just is on this mountain and she's just screaming or whatever, right? Just kind of like loose, like letting loose her trauma. And that was something that Sarah had done in real life. She was out on a hike with her husband, right? And so I think you know, she she does explain some of that in her interview with Alex and Call Her Daddy podcast about how you know you see her, she you would see some of the writing as responses to you know something that she was learning or dealing with in therapy. And it was really enlightening because I've not read that far, right? And so I wasn't, I'm personally not super worried about spoilers because the books have been out for so long, but it was enlightening because I dislike Nesta. I don't know enough, but I dislike Nesta because of how she was in book one. You know what I mean?

Mari: 11:41
I think we're primed to dislike Nesta because of book one being from Ferris perspective. And to me, Nesta and Elaine were like almost wicked stepsister vibe. You know what I mean? 100%. I got I'm trying to remember. I want to say it's Throne of Glass. I think it was in Throne of Glass. I I think it was like the first fantasy book I remember, like, you know, fantasy fantasy book I remember reading, where like it talked about, you know, where like the main character has been through some hard times and then is starting to like become healthy and be able to eat regularly and sleep regularly, and all of a sudden her period comes back. That was in Throne of Glass, right? Yep. Like even that aspect of like A having a period, B mentioning it, C, what do you do with it in a fantasy world, D, the fact that all these hardships that our fantasy heroes often have to go through affect people's bodies differently depending on what body they're living in. Just even that, I was just like, wow, yeah, periods in fantasy, because you know, people have periods, and uh, these are supposed to be people in these books. Just interesting because it's not just like, oh well, let me write Lord of Rings but put all women in it. Like it's not, it it is really a different perspective, which is why it's important to have diversity in all genres.

Jonathan: 12:50
Yeah, it's a reminder that they're human, you know. I I think sometimes I lose sight of it, but um I think we were well, I forget, I think it was a panel we were watching before like at like a book convention or something like that, and they were like, sometimes I forget to feed my characters, and like my editors will be like, hey, you should probably give them, make sure they eat in the story.

Mari: 13:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, moving on.

Mari: 13:13
 Next bit of news we have is Leah Bardugo, her ninth house trilogy, her ninth house series trilogy. The the last book is coming out. She announced the title, it's called Dead Beat, and it will be coming out September of this year, September 15th, 2026. I'm excited. This is a like a dark academia type fantasy. It's set in a it's it's an adult book. It's not a YA book. It's set in like a modern type world in a university, you know, like New England prestigious new university setting, and there's magic and cults and things. Do you like this one? I do like this one. For some reason I thought you didn't. Yeah, I like this one. It is very different from like the fantasy stuff we read. It almost feels more like a like a mystery movie. Like there's magic, but it's not lots and lots of magic. You know what I mean? Like magic isn't in every chapter, but it still very much influences the the characters and what they do. It almost feels like a X-Files, telemask, like that kind of a vibe, like uh yeah, it's hard to say a lot without spoiling the series, but it's good. It's just not like a heavy magic. Magic isn't a part of every aspect of the world. It's still kind of like our world, so magic stuff is hidden. I like it. It's good, like fall vibes, I think. Yeah, so I'm excited about this. I think September will be a perfect time to to read that, especially because of the way the second book finished on a like a cliffhanger. I was very excited to find out that this book was coming out. Next thing I have is Sarah Beth Durst announced that she's going on book tour. Um, it'll be from like March 31st through April 8th, and she'll be going mainly on the east coast. I think she's starting in like Baltimore. She's gonna be in Orlando on April Fool's Day and then working her way around a little bit.

Jonathan: 15:02
Um Yeah, this is like this is I was looking at the cities. I was like, oh, let's see where the cities are. This is not an easy trip.

Mari: 15:12
No, it's a little bit all over the place. So I hope she has good travel days.

Jonathan: 15:17
Yeah. It's from like you said, it's from the 31st through the 8th of April. So just over a week. So this is we're talking like nine to ten days here, and it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight cities. And thirty-first, first, second, third, fourth, she gets the fifth off, and then at six, seven, eight to end it. Yeah, and Missouri, Florida, North Carolina, Massachusetts, Virginia, Maryland, New York, New York. Like that's it's all over.

Mari: 15:48
Yeah, so so whoever is hosting Sherabeth, give her give her some tea, give her some hot chocolate, give her some sweet treats, take care of her.

Jonathan: 15:57
Heck yeah. April 8th, you better give her some wine. Something, a chewable, I don't know.

Ashley: 16:05
A break?

Mari: 16:06
Yeah, give her a break. The end of her tour. Here's some Kit Kats.

Jonathan: 16:11
Dang.

Jonathan: 16:12
And if you're going to see her on March 31st in St. Louis, you should make, yeah, give her some road snacks.

Mari: 16:17
Yeah.

Jonathan: 16:17
Let's give her some boat snacks because she's gonna need those things to be.

Mari: 16:20
I remember we saw her speak at RomanacyCon, where she it was the cozy fantasy panel, and she was talking about like the the things that she her like sweet treats or whatever that was all like cozy things and baked goods and all that. I'm like, yeah, let's get her, let's get her some good travel food. But anyways, if if you're interested in seeing her and you're in any of those cities, you know, look her up and see if you can go see her. Um next bit of news I have is that Mina Lima, which is a design team, they don't write books, but they like make really pretty versions of books with like pop-up things and interactive elements. They have announced that they're doing little prints, which I'm very excited about. I will probably end up buying even though I really don't need another version.

Jonathan: 17:02
I almost bought this one.

Mari: 17:03
Oh, their their stuff is so well done.

Jonathan: 17:06
Um It's the shipping that kills it.

Mari: 17:09
If you buy it from them, you can get it signed and it's got a special print in it. But if you wait, a lot of times you'll see it in independent stores. I've seen them in independent stores after the fact.

Jonathan: 17:19
Yeah, I was I bet you're any lower on the shipping, I probably would. And it's not their fault. No, it's the UK-based what it is. Yeah, yeah.

Mari: 17:29
Um but if anyone's looking for like children's books, like little prints, they have a bunch of they've done like Beauty and the Beast, they did Alice in Wonderland, The Secret Garden, a bunch of of like classic children's books like that. Really pretty big.

Jonathan: 17:44
They're delightful gifts as well. Like if you have either somebody who you know, a a sibling, a friend, a co-worker who was maybe work who who maybe in you know enjoyed this type of book. It's a good gift for them. Absolutely.

Mari: 17:58
Um next little bit of news I have is our friend of the pod, Sebastian Nothwell, was doing a Kickstarter because he's got a new book coming out. It's a sequel collection. So it's a series of stories set in the Oak King Holly King world. And when I first put the this in the news, he had just announced the Kickstarter. And uh it's already been fully funded. So I would say keep supporting him because they do have stretch, he's he has got he's got some stretch goals, but it's basically uh stories of different side characters and things within that world. I will probably go in and support it just because I I I really enjoyed that book. I enjoyed that world he created. I thought it was we love Sebastian, it was really good. So look into Kickstarter with Sebastian Knoff. Well, it is a nest. Oh my gosh, did I not write it down? I think it's called a nest. Yes, thank you. A nest within Briars. And it'll be coming this spring. Okay. I'm busy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, next bit, I think, Ash, you sent me this. So Nicole Holliman, who's one of the co-hosts on Fantasy Fangirls, they're the ones, I believe, aren't they the ones that interviewed Rebecca Yarros at Romanesticon? They Nicole Holliman got picked up, contracted for a three-book deal. She wrote a book. I I don't know if the first book is called Oath of the Chosen or if the series is going to be called Oath of the Chosen. Um, but she will have this book coming out. I don't know a whole lot about it. There's no like pre-order links available or anything like that yet. But it'll be interesting to see, you know, somebody who's very, like, definitely very much into the into the genre, see what they come up with.

Ashley: 19:37
I think it it what was really interesting about I think what I sent you, although maybe I saw it in a different clip, was she got the news while at BookCon last year at Romanacy BookCon. What like just before, you know, I think their own panel, right? Because they they did the interview with Rebecca, but they had their own panel. And so you like see her in the room, like pacing and freaking out, and like her team's there. And it was just so, you know, wholesome. It was it was just really great to see somebody. Yeah. And who like, I don't know if writing was her ambition, you know, when they started that podcast, but like what an awesome turn of events, right? Right. And now she's set herself up for success, and she's got all of these peers and you know, colleagues that can help her in this process. So I just thought that was super cool. I don't know what the book is, but I'd probably give it a try.

Mari: 20:28
Yeah, yeah, I'm curious. I'll I'll definitely be curious to see what what it's about. And I'm I'm sure I'll read it. I'll I'll give anything a try, let's be honest. Eventually it'll get into the TBR. 

Mari: 20:38
Last bit of news I have is Cincy26, which is so J.R. Warden does like a con, a convention kind of thing every year. I don't know how many years she's been doing this. I first heard about it last year's when a lot of the videos from it started popping up on different social media feeds. So it's J.R. Ward and the last one they had it with some of the actors from the Black Dagger Brotherhood TV show based on her series Black Dagger Brotherhood. And then it'll be like, you know, book signing and book merchandise and just like a bunch of people getting together and you know geeking out over a thing they love, which is what all good cons are. Um so tickets for that are gonna be going on sale March 30th, which is just a few days after this episode drops. The actual event is October 2nd through the third. I've I I don't know if I'm gonna go. I'm probably not. I know I've been thinking about it. I think it might be fun, but also October is really busy. It's just a busy time of year.

Ashley: 21:39
I did you say that she's hosting it or is she just part of it?

Mari: 21:43
She puts it together because it's it's all her books. It's about it's it's her books, her world. So yeah, people call JR Ward, like a lot of the fans call her the warden. And so the the nickname for this con is the warden con. So it's all her stuff because she um has written the Black Decker Brotherhood is like Like, I don't know, 26 books. I think there's another book coming out this year. I've somehow managed to read 25 books, and I'm only on book 17 in the series because there's also it's like side novellas, because the main books aren't enough. So it's a very, it's a very deep world. There's a lot of side characters and a lot of like, much like Juliet Cross, you're into like what's happening with the adult kids of the original crew kind of situation. Um, so there's like generational stories being told. Yeah. But when I was on there, and I don't really have any any news to say about this other than when I was looking at her website for information about this, because I couldn't find an actual website for Cincy, just like talk about it on her Instagram and on her website. Uh, but I did see that the only other event she's got scheduled after this so far on her website is a TBD November 2026 in Orlando. Oh. So I think she's coming back to Orlando. I saw her October or November. Anyways, maybe November. I saw her last year when she came to Orlando. It was her first time coming, and it was a fun time. She is a very, very entertaining person to listen to. Like it was me and Sarah and Brad from Hiss and a Kiss and and uh a friend of theirs, and neither Brad nor the other friend had read any of the books or knew much at all about it, and everyone had a good time. So yeah, I'm hoping to go to the November event for sure if I can get in, get tickets. I'm not 100% I I'm most likely not gonna squeeze in yet another October event. I need to have boundaries with myself. I need to have some realistic boundaries.

Ashley: 23:43
Did you get strep last year from working too hard? Do what now? Didn't you get strep last year around that time? You're just traveling and doing all the things and going out to Texas and there's too much fun things to do in the fall.

Mari: 23:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like Dragon Con through like Christmas. It was one big blur of activities. It was a great time though. Um, so yeah, I think most likely I will not go, especially if she's coming to Orlando in November. I will hope to just be able to go there and see her then. But if anyone is looking for an October, a fun October event, if anyone is a fan of her stuff, or if anyone's in that area, that might be something you might want to look into doing. That's the last bit of news I have. What about you guys? Anything?

Jonathan: 24:28
I got a quest.

Jonathan: 24:30
 I have a book. I don't know what it is. I bought it. It's a mystery book. The quest. If anyone, if any of our listeners out there know what this is, it's it's got like an untitled deluxe limited edition. It's a signed Barnes Noble exclusive book. It's written by Anonymous and a string of numbers. It comes out on 10 uh October 27, 2026.

Mari: 24:53
Um signed special edition.

Jonathan: 24:56
Uh yeah, it's I I can see the ISBN number, uh-huh. It doesn't take me anywhere.

Mari: 25:01
Well, and here's my question. The thing is, we're thinking it may be the next accuracy, right?

Jonathan: 25:07
Um I don't think so.

Mari: 25:09
But I don't know that it is because I was looking at the page count. The page count is different. They may have just put that in there to fool us. I don't know.

Ashley: 25:15
I was gonna say it can depend on the print size too, right? So if it's a deluxe edition, so maybe there's some pictures, maybe there are different sizes. So it is off by a little bit, but I think what gets me is that I don't know that she would drop a deluxe edition on the drop of the book because not for nothing, guys. Where's my fucking paperback? I'm so mad about this that I almost can't talk about it. That's so far the book six and book seven are only listed as you know, hardcover e-book or audiobook, right? But we all got these puke neon colored Avatar books.

Jonathan: 25:52
I like those colors.

Ashley: 25:53
I don't dislike them, but I need to continue them. And now I'm very stressed out about what to do come October and January. Anyway, my point is I don't I don't know that this is gonna be you can have a deluxe edition drop in it not be a new book.

Mari: 26:06
True. I will also say, as far as the paperback drama is concerned, because you know, if you you guys who listen to us, I had major issues with Travis Baltry not dropping his third Legends and Latte book in paperback, and he finally did. So like you can get it on paperback now. It was just like a few months later. So I think it'll happen. It just won't happen right away. I know there's a lot of authors now, like uh Callie Hart, I think did this for like Quicksilver, but a lot of authors will have like little special edition, like little chapters that were only available in certain editions. Like Good Spirits had this. Good spirits had a chapter that was only available in what? Like was it Rebecca did it too? The Barnes and Noble edition. I know there's something. So yeah, there's there's also the possibility of like, oh well, if you want the super secret chapter.

Ashley: 26:53
Yeah, it wasn't off by enough to make me convinced that it's not Sarah J. Mask. Yeah.

Jonathan: 26:59
You know what? It's Harper Collins, so that's not her publisher.

Ashley: 27:02
Oh.

Jonathan: 27:02
So that's the I see is it Bloomsbury? Is that who her publisher is?

Mari: 27:08
It is.

Jonathan: 27:08
Yeah, so I I mean I don't know. I I really anyway, it was worth the risk. Roll I roll the dice, I bought it. If any of the any of the listeners out there have an inkling as to what it might be, man, let us know.

Mari: 27:20
And if it's something we don't want, we can cancel it.

Jonathan: 27:22
That's right. That's right. And then the last piece I have is I have been awkwardly chasing a new author around. He wrote this piece of fiction. His name, you may recognize him as being the demigod, aka perennial Super Bowl MVP. Jalen Hurts wrote a children's book. And I've been chasing after I think I I think I accidentally ordered four copies of this, and I'm hoping that just at least one shows up of his signs. It's the only way I'm gonna be able to buy something of his signed and not have to have to explain.

Ashley: 27:53
To be clear, there were no accidents. He bought them all intentionally, hoping that one of them will show because he was nervous after the first two didn't ship right away. Oh yeah. Dear Jalen Hurts and anybody that loves Jalen Hurts, we are desperately trying to track down a signed edition of his children's book.

Jonathan: 28:12
With it for the actual price. I don't want to pay the sports, I don't want to pay your sports memorabilia reseller rate. And I'm not trying to hoard them either. Like I have a list of little babies that I'm gonna give, you know, I have a friend who lives far away who has a child who is an Eagles fan, and I will send them a copy of this book. I have another friend who lives, one of our cycling buddies has kids who is our Eagles fans, and we'll send them a copy of this book. I'm hoping just I'm desperately hoping that at least one, just one.

Mari: 28:44
Okay, so um send me a link to what this is you're talking about because as soon as as sports get involved, my brain goes into meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Send me send me a link. Uh, because there's there's a few independent bookstores around us, and there's the one in Augusta that often has signed copies of books. I can have people look around. I know people. Perfect.

Jonathan: 29:04
We know some we know some book people. Yeah, nope. We know some literate folk.

Mari: 29:09
All right, any other news? No. Okay. 

Mari: 29:13
So getting into the book, why we chose to read this is because I like J.R. Ward's books a lot. I like the Black Dagger Brotherhood book a lot, and this is her first romantic book. And I was really curious to see how this was gonna go because it's a very different world from her Black Dagger Brotherhood series. So basically, I bullied everybody into reading this. We did it happily. We're trippin'. So this was published very new. It was published February 17th, 2026, so it is brand spankin' new. Let me read the synopsis and then we'll get into the discussion. So in the deep dark dead of night, passions rise and empires fall. The fulcrum is falling and demons are slipping into the mortal world. No one is safe, especially not Sorel, an orphan and an outcast within the walls of her small village because of her mystical abilities. She wants to survive and find somewhere she can call her true home, but fate has other plans. Sorelle has been chosen, cursed. She must cross the Badlands to return the queen's crown and convince the fearsome female to save their world from destruction. Well aware that she's no brave hero, Sorel makes a dangerous deal with Merck, a brooding, commanding mercenary known only by his unscrupulous profession. The deal? A knight in his bed that she will never forget in exchange for her safe passage. But Merck has secrets of his own, and even though desire runs hot between them, adventure, danger, and betrayal lurk around every corner.

Ashley: 30:43
So what do we think? Does anybody know the word count of this book? There were a lot of words. I do not. There there was an abundance of description and adjectives that I really feel like we could have slimmed out just a tiny bit. Listen, I liked this book and I dedicate I started reading this book really early. I did not get to finish this book in time for this podcast. This felt way longer than 400 plus pages.

Jonathan: 31:13
So apparently. Apparently, the word count is 145,000. Seems like a lot which is just below fourth wing.

Mari: 31:23
Okay. I know that J.R. Ward writes a lot of books. Like I said, she's written like I don't know however many of these vampire books in the band like talking about the head, but she said in an interview that this book was torture for her to write. It took her nine months to write this book, which is very unlike her. She usually spits things out much faster. So it took her a long time to do this, for sure.

Ashley: 31:43
I mean, she could have talked about the wall less. That probably would have saved her a month. I'm joking. This is me trying

Ashley: 31:50
 to be funny and elicit some giggles. I liked the book. It just was I couldn't finish it. I didn't have enough time. There weren't enough hours in the day for me. But I I thought it was unique, you know, the the concept of of hiding herself and for how long she did. I did not get to all of the plot twists, but I he I did read that there are several of them. Um so I'm interested in everybody else's opinion. Guys? Jonathan?

Jonathan: 32:17
This book was not for me.

Jonathan: 32:18
Okay.

Jonathan: 32:21
So sorry. Um I definitely wrestled with this one. It was not it it was a um it was a challenge for me. There were it felt roller coaster y for me. Okay, I remember going into it and thinking and then I think I got to like part, I want to say it was like part two, when we started to kind of go through the when it was when she got connected with this the the Merc, the fella. Um, and they were like, and she was like, Look at my tiny sword, and he was like, Ooh, night, nice tiny sword, and he was like, I have a big clangly one, and he's like, I'm going in this water. And then like that, I was like, Oh, okay, all right, this is gonna be fun. And then I just I couldn't focus. Uh it was just it was not it was not my it was not my cup of tea, although I feel like it had shining moments. Is that does that make sense? Like there was just too much for me, for Jonathan, there was too much distance between those shining moments, but the moments existed, it was the the the hills and valleys, it was just too far in between um for my uh for my brain. Yeah so interesting story concept. Uh and like not all books are for all readers. And so no nothing I'm not talking trash. It's just it just wasn't it wasn't a me thing. It happens, right?

Mari: 34:03
Absolutely. I very much enjoyed this book. To me, it had uh there was something about it. I was talking to Jeannie about it. It was something about it that felt like almost like a never-ending story or like a very much 80s fantasy movie. And I say that in a good way because I love, I love, love, love that eat that up. Um, which makes a little bit of sense because she started writing, she wrote this book, generally had the basic concept of it around the same time that she wrote the first Black Dagger Brotherhood book in the 90s, and it's been sitting on her computer since then because Black Dagger Brotherhood took off. And then more recently, her publisher was like, Hey, you got any of that romanticity you can throw our way? And that's when she yeah, so she fleshed this out for that. I love this book. I read it with my eyeballs, and then yesterday listened to it with my ears and finished it today. So I've read it twice. I to me, this feels like a post-apocalyptic fantasy, almost like a Mad Max, you know, where everything's kind of like this world is a tough world. This is not Hobbit's Lord of the Rings or like Fairy where everything is beautiful and wonderful. Like this is a very like gritty fantasy world. There's demons that are be held at bay by a wall that you hope does not fail. Um and our main character is like this unassuming, like uh healer woman, cunning woman who like helps people, uh, but is also shunned by them because she is of the lowest class. You know, she hides herself, she wears a pox cloak, she is as removed as she could be until she does come into her power. And like to me, this was very much a banganin. Um the banganing brought the power on, and then she she still was herself, so she still had like this soft power where she chose love, she chose kindness, she chose to help people when it wasn't beneficial to her.

Jonathan: 36:09
And I feel like that resonates with you.

Mari: 36:12
Very much. Like, I I love badass heroes too. You know, I like you know, go kill them with a sword type stuff. You know, no not saying that, but it's always nice to have some examples of like softer power too, because that's also important. Like, yeah, the the person who can go out and defeat the demons is great. The person that can like keep you alive when you come back from an infection, also kind of important. Um, I saw a lot of the not all, but a lot of the twist coming, which is fine. I don't have to be super surprised, especially the more you read in a genre, the more you can kind of see some of the stuff coming. Um I was very much impressed with some of the quotes and descriptions.

Mari: 36:57
 Like when when Sorel and Merck first interact, she said, I I had so many quotes from this that I jotted down, but as I approach, I feel his stare on me, and I become the mead, something he drinks in. And then his line where he where he was talking about Merck was talking about Sorelle, he says, You smell of a freedom I once had a long time ago, and how could you not be beautiful? Whew. To me, like very much good yearning, very much this buildup of a relationship. There's some parts that I felt were like inspired by other literature for sure. I'm sure there was some Lord of the Rings stuff in there. I'm not as familiar with that, but like I felt like there was some Shakespeare influence. Like there's one quote where because she doubts herself a lot and she doubts that he's interested in her a lot. Um, and there's at one point where he says to her, There are many things you can question about me, morals, scruples, the very air in my lungs, but never doubt that I want you. And to me, that read like a version of that Shakespeare line in Hamlet where it's doubt thou the stars are fire, doubt that the sun doth move, doubt truth to be a liar, but never doubt I love. Like that was straight up Shakespeare to me. Yeah, I enjoyed a character coming into herself, and she started off as this like, oh, 20-year-old, whatever, and she's gonna be the chosen one, but it turns out she's not. It turns out she's centuries old and is like the shadow mommy in this situation. Because we don't really know how old he Merc is, but Sorelle's been around for centuries. Like that, you know, she's been saving people for centuries in this one town. Yeah, I thought that there were some really interesting explorations of like duality in it. Like she was a healer and then she had to become this more violent person. And does that mean she's still a healer? You know, she thinks of herself as one thing and then she finds out she's something else entirely. Like I'm trying not to spoil the end. You can spoil it. Yeah, girl. You okay, Ash with that? Okay, yeah, no, hit me. She ends up being the daughter of the Dark Lord, the Dark King. Is she is she also the savior, not the daughter? She's the savior's daughter. She her memories have been her her memories were like bound or wiped, or or as was her power, by her mom to try and save her, to keep her hidden from him. Merck ends up being a demon possessed by the dark king, and so he still loves her, but he's also controlled by this dark power. And I'm sitting here and I'm like Is it incestual? No. He's just he's a demon. Like he's he is. Do you guys remember the scene where they're in the town that's all burned out, and he's looking at the the the crops that are dead, and he's crying? It's because he used to be a farmer and he gave himself up to the Dark Lord as a tribute to save his family and his farm. And instead they raped the woman he loved in front of him and took his soul, anyways. It's it's yeah, it's it's dark. Like but then at the end, she's like, Was it all a lie? Did you really love me? And all I could think of my head was, but I want them to be together. Forgive him. He he was a he he was bound by this dark lord's power. And in my head, the other I heard this, I heard this little voice that was Ash on my shoulder telling me about oh god, what was the Daniel Jensen book we read? A Fate Inked and Blood? Right? Where it was like, no, he lied. And I Bjorn, I did not, I did not, I was not on board for Bjorn. For some reason, Merck, totally on board. Almost exact same situation. Why do I feel different about this? Did you come to an answer? No, I'm still trying to pick up like, am I a hypocrite? I don't know therapy.

Mari: 40:43
 I don't know what the answer is, but like I'm like, I'm hearts all there for Merck. And and Bjorn did Bjorn did not get that for me in the first book for sure. Yeah, I I very much enjoyed this. I think that there's she ends up being the the queen that's prophesied that is gonna save the land, the queen who can't look people in the eyes because she can't look people in the eyes because she sees their death. Sees their death. Yeah, no pressure. She thinks it's this queen in the south that she's gonna go see and she does all this stuff for, fights the spiders, gets the you know, gem, rides a dragon, all this stuff. And I think she's the queen that's prophesied. She's the queen that is gonna be wearing the crown. Yeah, I I feel like I had this theory, and I'm not the only one who had this theory because I was listening to a podcast that Francesca did from the Reading Under the Covers podcast. She does, you know, reading podcast stuff, but she interviewed J.R. Ward, and she's a fan of Black Dagger Brotherhood as well. And let me give you guys a little background. Black Dagger Brotherhood is set in a modern setting, vampires, etc., but they have a religion. And the religion is the Virgin Scribe. And the Virgin Scribe has like temples, lives in another world, has powers, you don't look her in the eye, she's got this cloak on. And the question is is this whole series like a proto-world or like a origin world for the Black Dagger Brotherhood like religion in her book? Oh prequel. Yeah, yeah. And Francesca asked J.R. Ward that question. And of course, like if it was, she's not gonna say it is. Like, she can't give it away. There's three more books coming. This is gonna be four books. But she, like, in my opinion, body language dissimulated and like said, Oh, that's a great idea. It made it sound like it wasn't it. I think this may be in a lot of ways related to Black Dagger Brotherhood. I mean, if it wasn't before, it is now. Yeah, I mean, there's so many things in it, like Merck, the Merck character, could absolutely be dropped in the Black Dagger Brotherhood mansion and be one of the brothers. Like that is all those vampire characters. And oftentimes in many mythologies, what are vampires? Like they end up coming from some sort of like demon origin story, right? Like the origin of vampires is oftentimes. Right. So I don't know. It would be interesting. But regardless, if you if you like the Black Dagger Brotherhood series and like the Virgin Scribe stuff, this could be an interesting side quest story for you. If you like 80s fantasy movies, this 100% felt like an 80s fantasy movie.

Ashley: 43:23
I see it now that you made the correlation. I just needed a a a few less chapters, like the forest and the houses that were burnt, and the the there was a lot of journeying. There was a lot of descriptors that just it it wasn't. Well, okay, so remember the houses that were burned?

Mari: 43:40
Everything had that S and P that was marked on it because that was supposed to be salvation and protection. So she finds out by going to the the soothers that that are mentioned in the first chapter, the the soothsayers, the truthsayers. She finds out by going to them that it SP doesn't mean salvation and protection, it means property of the shade, property of the dark. So the demons and the bad guys have been manipulating people, humans, to kill each other all along. You know, the mob mentality. And also that's what Mark ends up having carved in his back as SP, and that's how she knows that he's controlled by the demons, by the bad dark king or whatever.

Ashley: 44:21
I feel like hypothetically speaking, the last like quarter to a third of this book is where the good stuff is. Yes. 100%. Note to self.

Mari: 44:31
Like all the twists, all the action happens towards the end. Definitely.

Ashley: 44:36
Yeah, I want to be clear. I didn't dislike the book. Like I thought it was very beautifully written to your point. Like there was it, it was almost poetic in the, you know, the way that she would describe things. It was almost like a freaking screenplay because you could visualize everything. We just we were short on time. Yeah.

Mari: 44:53
Which it's funny that you say that because J.R. Ward describes her writing. That way. She says that she doesn't make this up. She she sees everything as a movie in her head, and she's just in there writing what she sees. She describes that when she writes about the Black Dagger Brotherhoods. She describes like the brothers talking to her and like telling their story or her being in a room when something happens. And she described the same thing for this book. She was like, she specifically describes the scene where they're riding through the Badlands when Merck is like flipping his blade in the air before the big bird attacks. You guys remember that part? Yep. Okay. So she's she remember, she's like, yeah. And so I was, you know, watching it in my head. And all of a sudden he's got off his horse and he stopped and he's playing with his sword. And she's like, Why is he playing with his sword? What's happening? And then it goes into that whole bird scene. Um, so in her head, she sees it as a like a movie, like a script. And so the rest of us get to read it as such.

Ashley: 45:49
That makes sense. Right. Was that the Skywalker? Is that what they called it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there was definitely some interesting monsters too. Like I would have liked a little like picture dictionary. Yeah. Yeah. Because the ogres too, like the ogre scene scene scenario was really interesting.

Mari: 46:09
Yeah. I'd like to see the dragons too, because she mentions them all having like different colors, which I thought was interesting.

Ashley: 46:15
Um so I didn't get as far as the dragons, but I did uh so like there's the initial dragon right early on that she rescues. So does that guy come back? Because that seemed otherwise like a lot of storytelling for not much.

Mari: 46:28
Yes. Yes. That dragon comes back. Yeah. There's I think this is one of those stories that once the rest of the books come out, like there'll be more interrelated stuff. But I do feel like there's gonna be more of the dragons. I feel like there's gonna be more of the different kingdoms because she's basically at this point just been to the Badlands and the Kingdom of the Queen, who ended up being the queen who wouldn't see people, what who saw no one or whatever they called her. Um she her kingdom was messed up, let me just put it that way. Like, I think there's some there's some no, there not I think there is some bad stuff happening there. Like, once again, like this is a dark book for anyone who hasn't read it. Like, there's death, there's tragic death, there's like death in disease, death in childbirth, there's you know, violence and stuff. And in that land, she is in a dungeon and thinks Merck has been killed, and the officer or whatever in charge is like abusing his power and tries to assault her. And she goes wild and like gets super violent, and that's when she has this whole like, oh my god, am I even a healer anymore? Because I had two girls. Wow.

Ashley: 47:42
Self-preservation does not make you a bad person. Right.

Mari: 47:45
I agree. Yeah, I I enjoy this, but like I said, I'm also very primed for her writing style because I've been enjoying the heck out of the Black Dagger Brotherhood. And so there are a lot of like similarities, even though those are written in a modern setting. There's still a lot of similarities in how she writes and in how she makes some of the characters. Um like none of them are perfect people, but they all feel like I could see people developing this way in that world. Because like I said, this is a fantasy world, but it's not like a sunshine fairy tale.

Ashley: 48:15
No, definitely not.

Mari: 48:17
It's dark. Like basically, even in just the first few chapters, so many people would have died in that village if she didn't exist, you know?

Ashley: 48:26
Yeah, I thought it was really like, you know, you you touched on this being being a healer and not like, you know, the assassin, right? That's very popular in the last, you know, dozen years or whatever. So to see the not the softer side, because I don't think healing is soft by any means, but it is such a necessary part of the puzzle, right? In any kind of war or dystopian apocalyptic

Ashley: 48:52
 whatever. And that her focus, you know, was always on the people, even though they treated her so awful, even though she was shunned, you know, they didn't even they didn't even fully know why they shunned her other than it was expected because she maybe had magic, but she wasn't for sure. Like it, you know, the way that she kept going was really admirable. Um, and she does it, you know. I didn't read the whole thing, obviously, like I said, but in every scene it was what can I do for this other person, you know? And then she gets to the outpost, right, in the Badlands, and this town just almost immediately accepts her. And she she doesn't know what to do with that, right? Her own trauma. She's never had family or real friends before, except for one person who, you know, ultimately died very horrifically.

Mari: 49:39
Right. Right. And they definitely liked it. Her best bet in that town would have been to keep her head down, right? And not do anything. And instead, what does she do? Let me immediately try and help this person who is being, you know, potentially going to be killed at work by a horrible boss. And oh wait, let me go and like use my potential magic healing powers to like save this woman and her child. Um that wasn't the smartest move if she was just interested in like, you know, laying low and and being able to be there without standing out, you know? But it was the right move. So yeah. This had all the I love all the whole like love prevails, kindness prevails, like, you know, the hard choices in the moment uh in end up with better circumstances at the end of the story kind of thing. Um, like the whole good guys always win, love always prevails, because you know, life doesn't always feel like it ends up that way. So it's nice when stories wrap up that way. But still feels realistic, though, because it doesn't feel like a fairy tale, I don't think, in any in any way.

Ashley: 50:43
So maybe that's why you didn't like Bjorn early on, because he didn't profess his love immediately and he hid it. Yes. But Merck was always like Logan in those pants.

Mari: 50:55
Yeah, like fur like that line, like I will I've been telling so many people, I'm like, listen to this line. Like you don't know anything about this book, you don't know what I'm reading, you don't care. But if if someone said that, like, oh my god, I I had it written down here. You smell of a freedom I once had a long time ago. How could John be beautiful? Done. Like, done. He's smitten. She didn't realize it yet, but but he was smitten, you know? So yeah. Not that he was perfect, like there were a lot of bad things he did.

Ashley: 51:29
Like a lot of bad things he did. Even like his first thing was just like, no, let's fuck. Right, right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a piece of that. It wasn't necessarily love.

Mari: 51:40
Even that didn't bother me because like his first experience of her was her exchanging in a brothel, because he she lived in a brothel and she's he saw her exchanging money with a guy or changing a package with a guy that he assumed was money. So like he thought she was just another sex worker, you know? So that part didn't bother me. But like when he started accusing her of lying, which I don't know, maybe that shouldn't bother me either, because if Motion tells you they can't swim, and then all of a sudden they're like Olympic level, and then oh wait, I can't ride, and all of a sudden she's riding like a badass.

Ashley: 52:10
You know, what did what did he say about her vagina? Yeah, just at some point. She's like, I'm a virgin.

Mari: 52:16
And he's like, it was like a well-plod feel.

Ashley: 52:21
I almost died. I was like, and she and so like she doesn't fight him because she's like, How can I fight with that? But if she's centuries old, right? Is this the first time that they're meeting, or do we not know yet?

Mari: 52:32
We don't know. I I think it's still the first time they're meeting, but I don't know, maybe not, because I she never I don't think she's ever is ever really fully said that she's recovered all her memories. Like she gets pieces and pieces of it. Like she at the end, there's a scene where like the bad guy's about to win and like the spirits of all the people she saved in the village over the years come and help her. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, and

Mari: 52:58
 she remembers helping them over the centuries. So, like, I think there are aspects that she's remembering, but I don't think she remembers everything.

Ashley: 53:05
So she wasn't a virgin.

Mari: 53:07
Maybe, yeah, I don't know. To poor Merck's point. Right. That guy doesn't know any better. Because I mean she thought she didn't know how to swim and she thought she didn't know how to ride a horse. So she really rode a horse, not just like kind of rode a horse.

Ashley: 53:18
No, they're doing like acrobats and I don't know. Fiding on horseback and that's what I mean to say. Yeah, it was like circus work out there. Yeah.

Mari: 53:28
So I don't know. I'm I will absolutely read the rest of these, like unless something changes dramatically in the second one and I don't like it or something. Right now I see myself finishing the rest of these. I believe the second one is written and she's starting in on the third one, is what she mentioned in the podcast and two.

Ashley: 53:47
Did I read that this is a four book series? Four books. This girl's leaving a legacy, isn't she? Yeah.

Mari: 53:53
She's written a lot of books. Like it's a whole con of of her of her books, and that's really just the one main world.

Ashley: 54:00
Like Sarah J. Mass wrote a lot of books. Uh, but this lady's writing a fucking library. She's making her own library.

Mari: 54:08
Basically. Like, I think there's 27 main Black Dagger Brotherhood books. And then there's like two or three series that come off of those. And then there's novellas in between those. Not all of them, but a lot of them have novellas in between them. Cause like I said, I have read 25 of her books, and I'm on book 17 in the Black Dagger Brotherhood series. And then she's got a few books that are a few that are not Black Dagger Brotherhood. I think they're like historic romance. I haven't read those yet, because those aren't as much my jam. But she's got a few, like, you know, standalone kind of things. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I I am looking forward to what else she's she's gonna be writing. I'm looking forward to what else she's gonna be doing with this world. Um, yeah.

Ashley: 54:52
I'm gonna finish this book because I want to. I just didn't have enough time to be clear again. Uh however, for book two, I'm gonna need you to read that one first and then tell me if all 500 pages are necessary. Or if I could just start like halfway with what chunks you can skip. You know, like that website that's like where you can go to the bathroom in the movie. Yes. Because I love her. She's just she's doing the most, and I I I did not have the bandwidth for it this time.

Mari: 55:23
Yeah, yeah. No, it was definitely like long adventure, big adventure stuff. This was definitely like an epic fantasy setup through and through. Like I feel this is gonna be by the end of the series, I feel this is gonna be like a towards the end of Game of Thrones thing. Not game, well, maybe Game of Thrones, but Throne of Glass, where you had like multiple countries or multiple kingdoms and multiple, yeah, multiple points of view, just kind of everything coming together to some sort of a big conflict or something. Yeah, I think it's it's gonna come together in some massive way. Um so we will see.

Ashley: 56:00
Um So Mari, you're in charge here. Is it a kissing book?

Mari: 56:05
Yes. Yeah, it's a hundred percent a kissing book because Merck was charged by the Dark King to get her and bring her to him. And if that's all he had done, we wouldn't have a book, we wouldn't have a story. But because he fell in love with her, or at the very at the very least, initially lust with her, and eventually love with her, we get all the story that happened, and we get her having the the power and the knowledge to be able to at least for the beginning of the first book push the dark

Mari: 56:35
 king back into the fulcrum.

Ashley: 56:37
I was gonna say, or at least the time.

Mari: 56:39
Yeah, yeah. For for now, yeah, I think I think it absolutely is a kissing book. Because I think also if she didn't feel something for him on some level, even if it was lust at the beginning, she might have gone off with Mr. Goldie. Um what was it? Julian? Yeah yeah, yeah, Ju yeah, yeah, Juliana, whatever. She might have gone off with him. How do you say the name? You didn't listen to it?

Ashley: 57:06
I listened to it over to it. I'll make him go back later and listen.

Mari: 57:14
Okay. Because I I think that's what it was, but yeah. I think she might have gone off with him if she didn't have this feeling of like trusting Mark, which is wild because she literally we st we still and she still doesn't even know his name. I don't like that. No. But fair enough. It's a kissing book. I agree. Yeah. I trust Mari. Especially if you think of like love. Like it's definitely a book that celebrates love because there's several quotes at the end. There's three main quotes at the end that I think highlight how much of a as dark as this book can be, how much it can also be about love. It says the lesson I now know is that kindness is never ever wasted. It is the sunlight against the darkness of the cold, hard world. Kindness does not need to be acknowledged to exist, and we cannot survive without it. Anyone can be a hero, and people working together can change the course of an epic war before it even gets started. And I think that's something we all need right now in our modern times where we feel kind of helpless and hopeless to make any change. Um Right. Yeah, just the idea that kindness and love and remembering each other's humanities and being there for those around you can make a bigger difference than you feel it does. You know? Yeah. So I say absolutely a kissing book. And in my opinion, unless anybody else has uh opinion otherwise, I say there was a banging banganing for sure. Write that one down, husband. Would you disagree? You are the banganing expert, the banganing creator.

Jonathan: 58:38
I do not disagree.

Mari: 58:43
All right. Well, I will stop blabbering about this book. Is there anything else anybody wants to say about it? No, I think we covered a lot. Yeah. All right, so thanks for listening to Of Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate, review, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Of Swords and Soulmates. Check out our website, of Swordsandsoulmates.com. If you'd like to offer a suggestion for future episode, book, or discussion topic, feel free to reach out to us on the DMs of any of our of these options. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode and get chapter by chapter interaction, join our Fable app Book Club by searching for the Of Swords and Soulmates Book Club. And last but not least, we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we will be discussing the movie I Am Dragon. Hi guys! Bye.

Jonathan: 59:34
Bye.